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Topic: Umbrella forum (Read 2184 times) |
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Richard Russell
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Umbrella forum
« Thread started on: Oct 25th, 2016, 3:43pm » |
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I see that over at the LB Community Forum Alyce is proposing the creation of an Umbrella forum "where multiple implementations of LB can be discussed".
For what it's worth I am very much in favour of such a forum, especially as Alyce says she would "be happy to include a link in the info box at the top of [her] forum". I would be happy to do the same here.
Richard.
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joker
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #1 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 03:11am » |
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... and how would that be better than what there is now? 
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tsh73
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #2 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 11:37am » |
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I dunno. Might as well work.
for:
- being neutral ground
- placing common programming contests (long time no contests, really)
- posting cool demos (graphic programs etc).
With obvoius intention "if you like picture you can as well try it running" and "if it doesn't run, you might as well try to adapt to your language (and share)"
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joker
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #3 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 2:51pm » |
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I'm not at all sure about an amalgamated forum if we're already talking about neutrality.
Would you not expect questions such as "This works in LB but not in LBB. Why?" or vice versa?
Would this develop just as much segregation?
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Richard Russell
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #4 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 5:31pm » |
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on Oct 26th, 2016, 2:51pm, pnlawrence wrote:| Would this develop just as much segregation? |
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Why is it different from any other language with multiple implementations? For example at a BBC BASIC forum there will be discussions about code that runs on all (or most) of the different versions, but there will also sometimes be discussions about differences between the implementations and how code needs to be adapted accordingly.
I don't see how this qualifies as "segregation", it's simply a recognition that with languages that don't have a formal specification the different implementations are bound to have some incompatibilities. Even for languages that do have a formal specification there will usually be differences in areas that the specification doesn't cover, such as compiler directives. There's nothing wrong with discussing those differences, surely?
Richard.
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RNBW
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #5 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 6:10pm » |
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The thread has been removed because the original poster (Jack Kelly) wants to rethink his ideas.
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joker
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #6 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 7:48pm » |
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Ah hah! Now we're back to normal ...
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tsh73
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #7 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 7:51pm » |
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Quote:| Would you not expect questions such as "This works in LB but not in LBB. Why?" or vice versa? |
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I don't see a problem. These are in effect different programs. People are different, so are programs.
(may be because I don't actually attend it) I see
http://retrogamecoding.org/board/
as an example of multi-language BASIC forum: folks use BASICs of personal choice, but share results - thus inspire translation to other dialects and other derivations.
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Richard Russell
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #8 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 9:01pm » |
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on Oct 26th, 2016, 6:10pm, RNBW wrote:| The thread has been removed because the original poster (Jack Kelly) wants to rethink his ideas. |
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I don't think it depends on Jack; if he doesn't want to set up the 'umbrella forum' presumably anybody perceived as being 'neutral' could do so instead. The important thing, it seems to me, is that the principle of such a forum, linked from the Community Forum, has been accepted.
Richard.
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joker
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #9 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 01:14am » |
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Well, now. Who will be the principal of such a forum? 
Who can be objective enough to not start editing and/or deleting and/or banning?
Well, let's see ... I vote Richard Russell because he hasn't done any of that here on this forum!
No that's not going to happen, so who will be the one in charge?
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Richard Russell
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #10 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 07:22am » |
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on Oct 27th, 2016, 01:14am, pnlawrence wrote:| so who will be the one in charge? |
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Well, if we're nominating people, my vote goes to Анатолий (tsh73), if he would be willing to do it. As a moderator at the LB Community Forum, but also a regular here and a LBB user, he would surely be a suitable 'neutral' candidate.
Richard.
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Jack Kelly
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #11 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 08:04am » |
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Sorry folks, I've been sick for the past few days. It's been difficult to focus on threads and issues. But I have tried to give the idea of an umbrella forum some thought.
My first reaction is that I don't want to run it. It is true that my primary recreation right now is programming in Liberty BASIC using LBB. And I do try to check the current postings on both the LBB and LB Forums a few times a day. And it is true that I often reply in those threads where I feel I can contribute something. And I sometimes do start new threads as a spinoff from another thread. And it is true that I advocate a real Liberty BASIC Community where solutions on all compilers can be discussed with impunity.
That being said, my primary responsibility right now is to my family. There are eight people in our house -- four adults, and four children aged two to fourteen. It is most important that I be available to help them all as much as possible, and to do my share of the regular chores. It would not sit well with the family if I spent any more time on the PC.
My second reaction is that I don't think it would get many members or many postings. Wasn't the Bay Six Forum supposed to be an umbrella forum of a similar sort? That seems to be virtually inactive now -- a failed experiment perhaps? Neither the LB Forum or the LBB Forum currently get a large number of postings. And at least three-quarters of the postings on both forums are by moderators.
That doesn't bode well for yet another forum. But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. We could always shut it down after a year or so if it's not proving useful. I would expect it to run by itself, and shouldn't need more than two moderators, just for the few housekeeping tasks. I could try to be one. Anatoly, would you be willing to be another -- if you're not already up to your ears?
It wouldn't need more two or three sections, with no restrictions. The only rule should be that there are no rules! Well maybe no sex or violence. The reason I had to respond to Alyce by PM is that the LB Snippets section doesn't allow replies by members. I had to start the contest thread there because the Contests section doesn't allow threads to be started by members. Too many rules and restrictions! I know the LB forum has nearly 6,000 members, but they don't realy seem to be all that active, much less troublesome.
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Richard Russell
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #12 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 08:38am » |
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on Oct 27th, 2016, 08:04am, Jack Kelly wrote:| Wasn't the Bay Six Forum supposed to be an umbrella forum of a similar sort? |
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It was (is?) still very restrictive. I did get permission to mention LBB there, but only under limited conditions and I got into trouble on a couple of occasions.
Quote:| But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. We could always shut it down after a year or so if it's not proving useful. |
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It just seems to me that it's an opportunity that shouldn't be squandered, especially as it was Alyce's own suggestion.
Quote:| The only rule should be that there are no rules! Well maybe no sex or violence. |
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If it's hosted by Conforums members are bound by their rules anyway. I expect any other forum hosting company would be the same.
Richard.
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net2014
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #13 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 09:08am » |
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I really don't see why the two existing forums can't co-exist peacefully. LBB complements LB very well and an umbrella forum will not 'hide' the fact that LBB exists so to me seems a pointless exercise to have yet another forum. Fogging the issue by having an intermediary will serve no purpose other than to annoy users even more.
Carl seems to be very preoccupied with other things which put LB on the back burner and support is just muddling along.
Oh, I nearly forgot - Happy 5th, LBB!
So 'bang heads together' and keep the existing forums. Lets all be cyber friends. 
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Richard Russell
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Re: Umbrella forum
« Reply #14 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 09:34am » |
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on Oct 27th, 2016, 09:08am, net2014 wrote:| I really don't see why the two existing forums can't co-exist peacefully. |
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It's not so much an issue of "co-existence" but of 'cooperation'. The issue came up when Jack wanted to hold a programming contest to which LB, JB and LBB users could submit entries. At present there is no single place at which such a contest can be promoted, and to which such submissions can be made.
An 'umbrella forum' for the entire LB/JB/LBB family, acknowledged as legitimate by all three of the existing dialect-specific forums, would be such a place. Presumably it would be OK to post announcements to the other forums about contests and other activities there, since none of the rules would be broken in so doing.
Whilst there remains an absolute ban on mentioning LBB at the Community Forum, some neutral middle-ground seems like the best we can hope for, and I think the idea should be given a chance.
Richard.
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